Updated with fascinating information from another study. Jump to new material.

Just between you and me, shouldn’t the World Bank be encouraging MORE migration of the dirty industries to the LDCs [Less Developed Countries]? … I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that. … countries in Africa are vastly UNDER-polluted

— Lawrence H. Summers

On January 14, 2005, Harvard President Lawrence H. Summers offered “some attempts at provocation” at a conference on “Diversifying the Science & Engineering Workforce”, specifically discussing “women’s representation in tenured positions in science and engineering at top universities and research institutions”.

He begins by suggesting that underrepresentation isn’t always due to discrimination:

Catholics are substantially underrepresented in investment banking, which is an enormously high-paying profession in our society; that white men are very substantially underrepresented in the National Basketball Association; and that Jews are very substantially underrepresented in farming and in agriculture.

So, he says, we have to ask why women are underrepresented and he offers three possibilities. The first is what he calls “the high-powered job hypothesis”, namely that “young women in their mid-twenties make a decision that they don’t want to have a job that they think about eighty hours a week”. (“Is our society right [in these expectations and imbalances]?” He tables the question.) The second is “differential availability of aptitude at the high end” — that there is a difference in the variability of “mathematical ability, scientific ability” that is “not plausibly culturally determined” which, by his rough calculations, means there are five times as many male math/science geniuses as there are women math/science geniuses.

“I would far prefer to believe something else,” Summers says, but “the combination of the high-powered job hypothesis and the differing variances probably explains a fair amount of this problem.”

Could the differing variances be due to socialization? Summers doesn’t think so. He says that “a hundred different kibbutzes” each independently decided to reverse course from a sexual egalitarianism and let “the men … fix the tractors and the women … work in the nurseries”. And furthermore:

my experience with my two and a half year old twin daughters who were not given dolls and who were given trucks, and found themselves saying to each other, look, daddy truck is carrying the baby truck, tells me something.

(Summers does not say whether two-person sample was also raised without TV and books and all the other images of socialization that say girls should play with baby dolls.)

Is it discrimination?

If it was really the case that everybody was discriminating, there would be very substantial opportunities for a limited number of people who were not prepared to discriminate to assemble remarkable departments of high quality people at relatively limited cost simply by the act of their not discriminating … I think one sees relatively little evidence of that.

So, he says, the general problems of universities are those of the “high-powered job”, the specific problems of the sciences are due to natural varying ability. “I would like nothing better than to be proved wrong,” but “empirical psychology” and “the data” say otherwise. And our personal prejudices have to bow before the objectivity of science.

This is a tune that is by no means new. As Stephen Jay Gould points out in his fine book, The Mismeasure of Man, throughout history those who have tried to justify existing inequalities by blaming biological determinism have said the same thing.

Paul Broca, for example, who carefully weighed numerous brains to see which groups were intelligent and which were not, was truly sad to discover that the brains of blacks were smaller than those of whites. But, he argued, there was nothing he could do: “There is no faith, however respectable, no interest, however legitimate, which must not accommodate itself to the progress of human knowledge and bend before truth.”

Despite such lofty principles, Gould shows that, quite aside from the false assumption that brain size is related to intelligence, Broca repeatedly and consistently manipulated his data to reach these conclusions. Gould believes such manipulation was unconscious, even though at times it was quite extreme. (As one example, Broca threw out entire systems of measurement when the inferior races scored too well on them.)

The tone is a theme through Gould’s book, so it is no surprise to see it reappear today. But is it any more true?

Broca’s major error was assuming that the size of someone’s brain could tell you how intelligent they are. This is of course incorrect — people’s brain size is mostly determined by the size and build of the rest of their body — and trouble the assumption seems absurd. Yet we believe in a notion that is just as silly — that IQ tests and math exams measure some sort of innate intelligence.

In the present context, a study by Claude Steele brings some of the problems into sharp relief. (I am working here from Steele’s chapter in Young, Gifted, and Black.) Steele, with Steven Spencer and Diane Quinn, took some of the best and most dedicated math students they could find and gave them an extremely difficult math test. The men performed more than three and a half times as well as the women — an enormous gap. Then they gave students the same test, but told them this was a special test in which women always did as well as men. The gap closed almost entirely, with women’s scores increasing dramatically. (Steele’s research shows similar effects with other victims of stereotypes, like blacks.)

Steele suggests that women’s scores are depressed by “stereotype threat” — a woman comes across a hard problem that they have trouble solving, and they begin to worry that people might think they’re having trouble at math because they’re female, and they begin to worry that this might be true. (Needless to say, comments like Summers’s can’t do much to alleviate these fears.) When they’re told the stereotypes can’t apply, the fears go away and they perform fine.

But the mechanisms involved are unimportant for our purposes. The key point is that the supposedly objective examination measure of intelligence is seriously flawed, even on a subject as supposedly objective as a math test. These tests are not just measuring intelligence; at the very least they’re also measuring something like self-confidence.

As Gould argues, we are tempted to measure things and then we are tempted to assume the numbers that result refer to something real — that tests in math measure something called “mathematical ability”. But this is a logical leap — the case must be carefully proven. There’s no evidence that such a thing as “math ability” even exists, let alone that it can be measured.

Biological determinists like to respond to such arguments by saying that the speaker is denying the influence of biology, when all reasonable people know that both biology and environment have an impact — say 40% biology, 60% environment. But it is the determinists who are missing the point. Skills cannot be divided up in so absurd a manner.

Let us put aside brains for a second and imagine the arm muscle. Some people are born with a naturally skinny body type that doesn’t build much arm muscle. Others naturally build muscle like crazy. Clearly biology plays a role. But it’s absurd to say that it’s 40% biology, or any other number — a muscular person whose arm is paralyzed will not be very muscular at all, while a weak person who works out incessantly will have huge biceps.

It’s not hard to see how the brain could work the same way: people are born with natural tendencies, but work or environment can quickly change this “default” destiny.

In a real twist of irony, it turns out that it is exactly this confusion that causes the gender gap. Further research by Carol Dweck has investigated whether students believe that “mathematical ability” is a learned skill or an innate gift. A simple study shows the shocking effects of this belief. Students were given an obscure non-verbal IQ-style test that was designed to be easy for their age group. Afterwards, half were told “You got a great score. You must have worked really hard.” and half were told “You got a great score. You must be really good at this.”. Then they asked kids if they wanted to try harder questions that might help them learn more. The ones who were praised for effort were happy to — one effort-based kid (in another study) rubbed his hands together, licked his lips, and exclaimed “I always love a challenge!” — but intelligence-based kids tried to avoid it, perhaps fearing they’d look stupid.

They were then given the harder problems, much too hard for them to solve. Then they were given more easy problems again. The gift kids did much worse on the third set of problems. When asked if they wanted to take more problems home, they said they already had them at home (an absurd lie). By contrast, the skill kids not only asked for some to take home, one even asked for the name of the tests “so my mom can buy more when I run out”. The kids were also asked to write a note about the tests to other kids who might take them. The notes were anonymous, but there was a little place to put your score. Nearly 40% of the gift kids lied and exaggerated their scores. All this from just one little sentence — the kids were otherwise identical.

In other words, Dweck says, telling kids they’re smart makes the stupid and liars.

Dweck’s observations of classrooms find that boys are more often chided on the basis of effort (“Johnny, I know you’d do better if you just spent more time on this”), perhaps leading girls to infer that their ability is innate. Her studies find that girls are more likely to believe their ability is innate than boys and that it is these girls who are the cause of the gender gap in ability. Teaching these girls that mathematical ability comes from hard work can eliminate the gap.

[Personal note: Both Dweck and Steele have been recently hired away from Stanford and presented their results to my class.]

Looking at the long history of how even supposedly scientific evidence of the differences intelligence between groups has been false and distorted, one ought to be very careful before reviving such claims. Summers was not only not careful in his evidence, he didn’t even bother to present evidence.

There are few worse things an intellectual can do than present false claims without evidence. If you present true claims, of course, there is no problem. And if you present false claims with evidence, one can evaluate the quality of the evidence. But if you simply state something as true, it has a way of seeping unquestioned into people’s heads. And how much worse, then, to spread these falsehoods on such a subject, where they can do great harm.

I’ll close with a bit from the question period after Summers’s talk:

Q: I noticed [this is] being recorded so I hope that we’ll be able to have a copy of it. That would be nice.

LHS: We’ll see. (LAUGHTER)

Further reading: Sexist Calvinism

posted March 09, 2005 03:40 AM (Politics) (24 comments) #

Nearby

Jimbo Wales on Wikipedia
Stanford: Roosevelt Institution Kickoff Party
Stanford: You Really Don’t Have To Read This
What can you say to that?
The Republican Playbook
The Case Against Lawrence Summers
Blogshine Sunday: US Greenlights, Funds Genocide
Fraud in Science
How is Disney like the Soviet Union?
Summer Founders

Comments

It’s not hard to see how the brain could work the same way: people are born with natural tendencies, but work or environment can quickly change this “default” destiny.

I am not an expert here, but I know of no contemporary scientist who can really be characterized as a biological “determinist”. The sentence you just wrote is almost exactly how evolutionary psychologist Stephen Pinker frames things.

Pinker’s written a book, The Blank Slate, which addresses these questions. His aim is to dispel the fears people have about investigating biological aptitudes — our egalitarian society need not crumble. In fact, the idea of a blank-slate mind leads to a lot of harm as well, such as parents trying to create baby geniuses.

You’re attacking Summers from a couple of different standpoints and I’m not sure they all hang together. Ultimately you deny the existence of things like “mathematical talent”.

This, to me, seems like destroying the village to save it. If you want to question the existence or importance of whole fields of inquiry, the question of whether we’re being sexist in hiring seems rather moot.

Aaron’s response: I am told that Pinker is a right-wing prick who ignores scientific evidence in favor of manufactured studies by anti-feminist groups. I considered discussing him here, but it seemed like too much of a tangent. However I like Pharyngula’s comments. Anyway, there are much better reasons for parents to avoid creating baby geniuses — namely, the incredibly well documented negative effects of coercion on motivation.

Is there any evidence that things like mathematic talent exist? If not, we should avoid acting as if they do. If this means getting rid of fraudulent fields of inquiry, all the better.

posted by Neil K at March 9, 2005 05:05 AM #

“I would far prefer to believe something else,” Summers says, but “the combination of the high-powered job hypothesis and the differing variances probably explains a fair amount of this problem.”

Note that he didn’t say that it completely explained the problem, merely that the supposed sexism isn’t as pronounced as the numbers would make it out to be.

As Stephen Jay Gould points out in his fine book, The Mismeasure of Man, throughout history those who have tried to justify existing inequalities by blaming biological determinism have said the same thing.

I don’t see Lawrence Summers supporting biological determinism. Noting that the two sexes exhibit differing aptitudes for various things in aggregate is perfectly reasonable. This is entirely different to claiming that somebody is inherently inferior to another in some respect merely because of their gender.

Broca’s major error was believing that the size of someone’s brain could tell you how intelligent they are. This is of course absurd — people’s brain size is mostly determined by the size and build of the rest of their body

You seem to have mixed up causality here. You can’t contradict “big brains correlate with higher intelligence” with “big bodies correlate with big brains”.

There’s no evidence that such a thing as “math ability” even exists, let alone that it can be measured.

I have a hard time understanding what you are trying to say here. You deny that one person can be better at mathematics than another?

Some people are born with a naturally skinny body type that doesn’t build much arm muscle. Others naturally build muscle like crazy. Clearly biology plays a role. But it’s absurd to say that it’s 40% biology

Would it be absurd to say that the people born skinny are less likely to pursue careers where strength is necessary? I don’t think so. Would it be absurd to say that perhaps there’s nothing wrong with this? I don’t think so.

Aaron’s response: Perhaps the correlation between body and brain size doesn’t prove the argument logically false, but it does seem to eliminate mistaken assumptions on the subject. (I don’t think many would seriously claim that big people are smarter than smaller people.)

By “math ability” I mean some sort of innate talent.

posted by Jim at March 9, 2005 11:34 AM #

I’m not sure of the situation in America, but my guess is this: the reason that this issue can come up in the first place is that hiring practices are often quite opaque, with a group of people making hiring and firing decisions based on voodoo. Whether there’s sexism involved or not, I think this is a Bad Thing.

posted by bi at March 9, 2005 11:39 AM #

Interesting commentary.

I actually have mixed feelings about Summers’ arguments, but I do take issue with your entry title, not to mention the screaming reactionary responses of many people calling for his head.

I consider myself — generally proudly — a liberal and in many respects a feminist — but am ashamed at these groups’ attempt to stifle speech, debate, and inquiry.

Why is your entry title “The Case Against Lawrence Summers” instead of “The Case Against Lawrence Summers’ Arguments”? Why is this man not free to start healthy, vigorous debates? Why is it okay for academicians to spout politically correct crap, but not okay for them to — God forbid — incorrectly touch one the third rails of academia (gender and race)?

I look back on my college years and they darn well almost made me into a conservative.

When liberal speakers came on campus, the conservatives either (stupidly) refused to attend their lectures, or they hunkered down and figured out ways to get ‘their own’ speakers on campus.

When conservative speakers came on campus, liberals shouted them down, staged ludicrously dramatic protests in front of the auditorium and so on.

Ideas are not dangerous. But the behavior-de-jour of liberals nowadays to call for the scalping of any person in academics who dares espouse a non-party line IS dangerous and frightening.

I disagree with quite a bit of what Summers says, but I found his women-in-academia comments neither offensive nor necessarily even inappropriate. And I wish more people would debate his ideas on their merits (or lackthereof) as you have done to a large extent, instead of simply villifying him as misogynist and closing off the debate.

Aaron’s response:

Why is your entry title “The Case Against Lawrence Summers” instead of “The Case Against Lawrence Summers’ Arguments”?

Because he had no real arguments that I can see, only claims and evasions.

Why is this man not free to start healthy, vigorous debates?

There’s nothing wrong with starting debates, but that’s not what he did. The point of my article is to point out that people have been researching these questions for years, with the explcit goal of proving claims like the ones Summers made wrong. To respond by ignoring that evidence and repeating the claims isn’t starting a debate, it’s being a sexist jerk.

Why is it okay for academicians to spout politically correct crap

Since when is that OK?

When conservative speakers came on campus, liberals shouted them down, staged ludicrously dramatic protests in front of the auditorium and so on.

Hm, could it be because the conservatives run the country and the media and the liberals dont? Just a thought.

Ideas are not dangerous.

Really? Truth is not dangerous, perhaps, but ideas are perhaps the most dangerous thing there is.

posted by Adam at March 9, 2005 11:54 AM #

Interesting.

Of the people who wrote comments here, how many are female? None? I thought so.

Does this say that men just have naturally better “blogging talent,” or just that they are more self-absorbed and willing to make generalizations?

In fact, that also characterizes Summers’ comments and Aaron’s comments. So, what say you, are men just naturally better at pointless mental masturbation?

posted by person at March 9, 2005 05:06 PM #

person: your comments are interesting, but hard to understand without specifics. What generalizations did I make?

posted by Aaron Swartz at March 9, 2005 09:45 PM #

I think Lawrence Summer’s points and the reply to some extent do misunderstand the determinist position in science, which is much more complicated than seen here. Thinkers like Richard Dawkins or Daniel Denett have never said that biology and genes are everything but simply that they are very, very important. Furthermore, a true determinist believes that everything is determined, not just a few simply physical differences. Let me take the example of the skinny man and the naturally strong guy as an example:

The environment and society an individual is in, do of course make a difference. But then, we all live in societies and environments of biologically predetermined individuals.

posted by e at March 10, 2005 04:50 AM #

I’m a new visitor to your site, so I can only form my opinion of where you’re coming from based on the text of this post and I apologize in advance if my unfamiliarity with the complete body of your writings leads me in coming across too harshly.

If you want to argue against Summers’ positions, then I think that you’ve got to seriously improve your game. For one thing, quoting Gould’s Mismeasure of Man buys you as much credibility as a creationist quoting the Bible in an evolution debate. Even Paul Krugman slams into Gould’s asshattery:

Now it is not very hard to find out, if you spend a little while reading in evolution, that Gould is the John Kenneth Galbraith of his subject. That is, he is a wonderful writer who is bevolved by literary intellectuals and lionized by the media because he does not use algebra or difficult jargon. Unfortunately, it appears that he avoids these sins not because he has transcended his colleagues but because he does does not seem to understand what they have to say; and his own descriptions of what the field is about - not just the answers, but even the questions - are consistently misleading.

Look here for what scientists, rather than the literati, thought of Gould’s book. Coincidently, I touched on Gould’s Marxist proclivities in this post from last week.

Next, you bring up the issue of stereotype threat. Did you accept Steele’s findings because they were ideologically resonant for you or did you accept them after you attempted even a cursory falsification? Here is a post we did on Stereotype Threat that paints quite an unflattering portrait of Steele’s work.

Further on the issue of stereotpe threat I ask you to consider this real world account posted by a female math professor on a feminist blog:

I teach math, and I’ve observed that it’s my female students, far far more than my male students, who are under the impression that it is socially acceptable to remain completely ignorant about math. I’m not the only one who’s noticed this, and indeed it’s well-documented that girls, more than boys, are given permission from parents, teachers, and guidance counselors to avoid math classes and mathematical pursuits in general entirely. Why doesn’t this translate into large numbers of abysmal female scores on the math/science portion of standardized tests? Seems that the socialization explanation should result in a lower AVERAGE female scores, not just a higher standard deviation. At the same time, though, I can’t imagine a socialization explanation that applies to the high male scores but not to the low male scores that is anything other than politically motivated.

Another point you raise is the issue of the correlation between brain size and IQ. Perhaps you’d find Thompson and Gray’s work to be of interest:

MRI-based studies estimate a moderate correlation between brain size and intelligence of 0.40 to 0.51

Finally, in comments you write:

I am told that Pinker is a right-wing prick who ignores scientific evidence in favor of manufactured studies by anti-feminist groups. I considered discussing him here, but it seemed like too much of a tangent. However I like Pharyngula’s comments.

Firstly, Pinker’s political views trend Left rather than Right. Next, if the basis of your response is framed propagandistically, then why do you expect your readers to take your writing seriously. PC Myers ad hominem attack on Pinker is shameful and for you to accept this hook, line and sinker doesn’t portray you in a falttering light. Why not form your own hack-free opinion? Here are two reviews of Pinker’s The Blank Slate published in The Nation (certainly not a bastion of sexist neanderthals) and The National Review. And here is background on Myer’s ideological blinders.

I would think that you should at least be aware of some of these issues before making your “Case Against Summers.” It just floors me that you’re taking this “enlightened” position on this issue, without being aware of the details of the relevant arguments, portraying someone like Dr. Summers as a bigoted ignoramus and feeling that you’re on the side of the angels. This surely speaks more to hubris on your part rather than intellectual depth.

Aaron’s response: First, I don’t see how Gould’s thoughts on evolution is at all relevant to The Mismeasure of Man, which I don’t think even touches on the topic. His book mostly consists of direct quotes and logical arguments.

You cite a review in The Public Interest, which Gould actually discusses in his introduction to the second edition. Its few substantive complaints can be quickly dismissed. Mostly, it just misrepresents Gould’s writing — sometimes egregiously so, as in the discussion of heritability, which is just so outrageously wrong that I am forced to conclude the author is lying. (I’m happy to discuss specific examples in detail, if you wish.) Two factual claims remain. Gould addresses the first, that the book was panned by science reviewers. It turns out the author was working from a biased sample: it was the reviews from those Gould attacked that were negative, other scientists (the majority) liked the book. The second is a rather minor quibble about the causes of the Immigration Restriction Act of 1925, on which I am not competent to judge, but other evidence I’ve seen and the author’s apparent lying makes me rather skeptical. On the whole, the article is an amazingly sorry affair, misrepresenting one thing after another, attacking straw men left and right. But I suppose I should expect nothing better from a neocon journal.

On the larger question, do you have any evidence that intelligence tests have demonstrated value? I hope to write an article on the topic soon; they currently appear to be a sham.

And as for Gould’s “Marxism” (by which, I assume, you mean his skepticism and support for equality), I fail to see how that is relevant. In any event, he does discuss in the intro how he went out of the way to make sure it didn’t bias his work.

Turning to Claude Steele, I accept his findings because, as a rational person, I accept evidence unless I have a reason not to. Your post on him, even if completely true, seems not to address the points I cited the study for: namely that stereotypes can cause lower performance on math tests. You then cite a single anecdote about girls being socialized not to care about math, which seems irrelevant to the studies, which are about girls who are already deeply interested in the subject.

Your correlation between brain size and IQ seems moderately interesting; I will look at it.

Finally, I’m not sure how my response is framed “propagandistically”, except in the sense that it was discussing propaganda. I’m also not sure PZ Myers’s comments were “ad hominem”. As for Myers’s claim that 1000 random people could be successful college students, while it has not to my knowledge been tested, being a college student it does seem to me to be probably accurate and I don’t know of any evidence to the contrary. Do you?

Anyway, I do sincerely appreciate your attempt to correct me; if I make any further errors, I hope you’ll bring them to my attention.

posted by TangoMan at March 10, 2005 02:57 PM #

Yeah, nice one, we went from sexism, to racism, to onanism (which brings to mind a title for an interesting course ‘Intellectual Onanism,’ should be taught at all universities worth their reputation).

Quite a conundrum, last post, but one that stumbles over its own metaphors. The whole point is that is intelligence something that is immutable. Unless we have a quantifiable definition of intelligence, we are not clarifying the debate. I don’t think our understanding of intelligence has as yet that property. We all have an intuitive notion of what intelligence is, and how we expect people with that quality to behave. But intelligent people can and do behave like fools many times. You see, this sort of debate can go on and on…

I think Summers was revealed for what he is. His remarks, which he may have made in passing and simply to raise questions, leaves very little doubt that he believes (his “conviction and theory”) that males and females have their respective places in society. As for ‘inferior races,’ one can assume what his views are based on the value he places on his discussions with “chief executive officers at major corporations, the managing partners of large law firms, the directors of prominent teaching hospitals, and with the leaders of other prominent professional service organizations…,” and the representation of minorities among that population. But, hopefully, these beliefs of his won’t interfere with the stated goals of Harvard of “diversifying science and engineering.”

There is the pitfall in symbolism getting in the way of actualities. Just having more women in the science faculty doesn’t mean much unless you also remedy the broad conditions which hinder them in this field. We have the example of Powell and Rice, appointed by Bush as Secretary of State. Both are well qualified for the position, but they weren’t appointed based merely on that point. Foremost among the reasons would be their loyalty to Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc. Though, as members of a minority class, they are also powerful symbols, which voice the idea that Bush is committed towards racial equality. Not so, given that he sided against affirmative action policies in the Supreme Court case against University of Michigan, and that they are threatening to revoke the non-profit status of the NAACP due to some rather mild comments made by its chairman Bond in a speech.

Having completed graduate studies in engineering, I myself would have loved it if there were more women in the classes, it may even have improved my dating record (abysmal as it is). I did find a better ratio in my graduate classes vs. undergrad. Also, in my particular area about 70% of the student were from South Asia (mostly India), and among them I did find that there were lots more women. So, if in India there are proportionally more women in engineering, then why can’t it happen here?

There were some good recommendations for books here (Gould, Dawkins), I’d recommend the movie “The Human Stain,” which examines the issue of race.

posted by at March 11, 2005 04:19 AM #

The whole point is that is intelligence something that is immutable.

No, I think the question is whether or not particular qualities of intelligence (e.g. the qualities that are useful in mathematics) vary in a statistically significant way between the sexes.

[Slightly paraphrased]

His remarks leave very little doubt that he believes that males and females have their respective places in society.

I disagree, I think it does no such thing. Read it again:

”(“Is our society right [in these expectations and imbalances]?” He tables the question.)”

Though, as members of a minority class, they are also powerful symbols, which voice the idea that Bush is committed towards racial equality. Not so, given that he sided against affirmative action policies

I consider affirmative action to be racism. It’s certainly possible to be against affirmative action without being a racist.

So, if in India there are proportionally more women in engineering, then why can’t it happen here?

The question should not be “why can’t it happen?”, but “why doesn’t it happen?”. The former implies that the Indian state is more desirable that the USA state, the latter makes no judgement either way.

Once you view it as a problem to be fixed, you open yourself up to biases. For the sake of argument, suppose an infallible study was performed that concluded that the number of women who want to pursue these careers were simply outnumbered by the number of men who want to pursue these careers?

Your position would lead to “we need to convince women that they do want to pursue these careers”. A more neutral position would lead to “if they don’t want a career in these fields, who are we to say otherwise?”

posted by Jim at March 11, 2005 06:49 AM #

Jim: the problem is that Summers claimed that the differences are “not plausibly culturally determined”. This is the key word. You seem to keep ignoring this main point by talking about “intelligence” as some sort of unanalyzable given. Sure, some people may be better at math than others. But is this just because the folks gifted at math just happened to be at the right place at the right time when they learnt math? Or is the difference due to the genes? This is the main point of contention, and you aren’t going to help advance the discussion by ignoring this point.

And Claude Steele’s study already showed that the difference is indeed due mainly to enculturation.

posted by bi at March 11, 2005 12:26 PM #

Re: Gould - There are plenty of critiques focused on Gould’s book. His takedown on factor analysis is screwy and many think he doesn’t really understand the math involved. There are two concerns about Gould’s book. One is his politics. If you think it fair to dismiss Davis’ piece because he it was published in The Public Interest then you really should look at Gould’s antics regarding The Sociobiology Study Group and his Marxism. That said, an author’s politics shouldn’t really matter and the work should rise and fall on its own merit.

Leaving aside Goulds outright fabrication of charges against Burt, whose findings have now been replicated, the bulk of the book seeks to condemn modern IQ research with stories from the past. Who among us would support such a tactic being used in the critique of medicine. The history of leeching, bleeding, and all sorts of other early techniques have no real bearing on what goes on today.

Let me reiterate my point, the same one as Krugman’s, that Gould doesn’t really understand what he talking about though he writes a compelling story. But the public understanding has not kept pace with the science. Sadly, the 23-year-old opus of a paleontologist is waved as a talisman against research techniques that weren’t even invented in 1981. One wonders what Stephen J Gould would have made of genome-aided QTL mapping of IQ-linked loci, or MRI-based voxel-IQ correlations, or multiple strains of genetically engineered intelligent mice. But let us not speak ill of the dead…let us only note that perhaps a person interested in “debunking” behavioral genetics and assorted reactionary topics would do well to read a more recent book, such as, say The Blank Slate.

On the larger question, do you have any evidence that intelligence tests have demonstrated value? I hope to write an article on the topic soon; they currently appear to be a sham.

OK. How about a review paper published in 2000. The Study of Human Intelligence: A Review at the Turn of The Millenium. This saves you from having to refute the psychology profession’s near unanimity on the usefulness of the IQ test. As for some specifics, I’ll clip from the paper:

the internal consistency of an IQ test tends to be situated between .90 and .95. The correlation between the length of the right arm and the left arm measured in a representative sample of the population tends to be .95. The reliability coefficients of measures such as blood pressure or cholesterol level are usually around .5; b) the correlation between a person’s IQ assessed on two occasions with a week in between is .95.The correlation between an average person’s weight measured twice on the same scales with a week’s interval is 0.97; IQ measures at age 6 correlate at a value of .96 with IQ measures of the same subjects at age 12. IQ measures at age 6 correlate at a value of .86 with those of the same subjects at 18. The correlation between the height of a group of children at age 2 and at age 4 is .83; between height at age 2 and height at age 18 it is .60. Thus, psychological measures of intelligence are as precise as any other type of measure. [ … . . ] “psychometric tests are the best predictors of success in school and in the world of work. And what’s more, they are no mean predictors of failure in everyday life, such as falling into poverty or dependence on the state (…). To say that other things are important, apart from intelligence, is not really a challenge until you say precisely what those other things are.” According to the APA, standardised measures of intelligence correlate at levels of .50 with school performance, .55 with years of schooling, .54 with work performance, and –.19 with juvenile delinquency. No other psychological variable is capable of producing these correlations.

To take a slightly more illustrative tack, consider the work of Benbow and how predictive the SAT is when it is given at the age of 13:

Recently, they compared Camerer’s cohort-the 1-in-10,000-to a group that merely scored in the top one per cent. “There were huge differences,” Benbow says. “Huge.” By the age of thirty, the 1-in-10,000 were twice as likely to earn Ph.D.s as the other cohort, and fifty times more likely to earn Ph.D.s than the average American. “And they go to much more prestigious schools,” she added. “The top one per cent achieve enormous amounts, but the 1-in-10,000 do even better.”

Keep in mind that it is the SAT that is used to sort these kids out from their peers. The SAT, as used by Benbow et al, has predictive value 20 years out, and can isolate those students who are more than 50 times more likely to earn a Ph.D than the average American.

I’d say that IQ is as much a scam as is a coronary by-pass. If you have specific points, I’d be happy to engage you on them.

The anecdote I offered was not the foundation of the argument, simply an illustration offered by a woman math professor, on a feminist blog. The point she, and I, were making regarding stereotype threat is that it should have much more effect on the average score, rather than the variance. Look at the variance of male scores compared to female scores.

Finally, I’m not sure how my response is framed “propagandistically”, except in the sense that it was discussing propaganda.

When you write “I am told that Pinker is a right-wing prick who ignores scientific evidence in favor of manufactured studies by anti-feminist groups” you’re relying on PC Myers’ assessment of Pinker and it is so foul and rank in its accuracy that it really is propoganda. Pinker is a known leftist, but he’s being attacked by the likes of Myers because they don’t like his message. For you to parrot Myers’ assesment is bad news.

Regarding Myers’ claims about 1,000 students . . well, IQ is distributed normally with the mean centered on 100, which by itself probably isn’t sufficient to see one successfully through college. So, to randomly chose 1,000 students means pulling from the whole distribution, which includes a smattering of sub 80 IQ people. It most certainly doesn’t mean pulling the 1,000 students from a population of IQ 110+. Now, you may argue that IQ is completely malleable and can be shaped by environmental conditions but if you do so, you’d have to be able to demonstrate that such a contention is true, and even James Heckman, who criticized The Bell Curve in 1995 and set out to make a second career of disproving the points raised has by 2002 conceded that changing IQ significantly is impossible. IQ has a biological basis, and is not a strictly environmental construct.

posted by TangoMan at March 11, 2005 01:41 PM #

Gould’s takedown of factor analysis seems eminently reasonable to me; do you have any substantive problems with it? I didn’t “dismiss Davis’ piece because he it was published in The Public Interest”, I carefully read the piece, showed why everything it said was false, and then noted the social context in which it was published. I agree that politics shouldn’t matter.

Turning to the serious topic, the quotes you provide say that IQ test results are pretty stable (which, ludicrously, they misinterpret as evidence that they are “precise”) — this is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition. Your real evidence is a review article which claims a .5 correlation between IQ tests and school/work performance. It’s not at all clear what things like “work performance” mean, so I checked the cite and it’s for — get this — another review article, this time in Spanish. My Spanish is not the greatest and, in any event, they don’t have the book in the Stanford library, so perhaps you could provide the actual study that found these results?

But let us assume that the review article has not again misinterpreted. First, it cites an equivalent correlation between years of schooling and IQ, which would seem to put the lie to the claim that IQ measures innate intelligence — how can innate intelligence get better with training? So we are left with the possibility that IQ measures some form of socialization. There are two possibilities: that the IQ tests measure some thing we might fairly call “intelligence” that one gets with training and is useful in school and work or that they measure something more along the lines of ability at taking tests, which then determines how well the students do in school, which then determines whether they get good jobs. Since these tests were assembled basically by pure guesswork, the latter seems far more likely.

Another study you cite finds that people who score at the very, very top of the SATs get into better schools and are more likely to get Ph.D.s than someone who just does really well on them. I hardly see why this is even surprising — prestigious schools give spots to people who score high on the SATs! (I don’t know if the same is true of graduate schools, but they certainly give preferential treatment to people who go to prestigious schools.)

To respond to Myers’s claim without evidence that she could get 1000 random people through college, you claim without evidence that you need more than a 100 IQ to get through college. Not exactly convincing. Again, I’m looking for evidence — got anything better?

posted by Aaron Swartz at March 11, 2005 03:25 PM #

What bothers me the most about all this is that Summers explicitly said he was both not speaking as Harvard’s President and inclined to make provocative comments. Oh, and he didn’t claim the things he said were true (other than his experiences with his daughters); he said, in essence, “Let’s look at these other explanations and think about them and do studies to get to the heart of all this. Oh, and look at all the cool stuff Harvard has done for diversity.”

And, of course, all this went right over people’s heads and they jumped down his throat for daring to suggest that everything isn’t always and entirely based on some -ism (sexism, in this case).

At the same time, they actually provide evidence for his arguments by demanding companies provide programs to “balance work and home” and allow people to work and still raise children, for example. The Boston Globe, no bastion of conservatism, had an article on all the steps PriceWaterhouseCooper (sp?) took to get more female partners and a lot of it revolved around lowering that “huge numbers of hours” they would have to put in. And some of the women made the exact same argument as Summers for why they hadn’t pursued a partnership earlier.

To me, anyway, the combination of ignoring his disclaimers, refusing to even discuss his other explanations and the blatant hypocrisy of both denying something and demanding it be changed at the same time, all do nothing to make their case believable.

For the record, I consider myself liberal but no longer a “feminist” for precisely these reasons; if free inquiry is stifled and ideology overrules science, I want no part of it.

[Edit: It is cool that it turned my asterisk bracketing into italics! ]

posted by DDA at March 11, 2005 03:59 PM #

First, it cites an equivalent correlation between years of schooling and IQ, which would seem to put the lie to the claim that IQ measures innate intelligence — how can innate intelligence get better with training?

You’re very quick with your opinions and conclusions aren’t you? Did you consider the arrow of causality? Your statement implies that you think that the more schooling one receives the higher their IQ therefore, of course there is a correlation. But that’s not what the studies show, for you have the arrow backwards. The higher your IQ the more likely you are to perform better in school and go further in school. IQ is independent in this case. Really, the interpretation that you offer would be laughed out of an peer review as hopelessly muddled.

I thought you’d find the review paper to be sufficiently broad in scope and never imagined that you’d criticize my offering such a summary to your wide-open question. By its very nature, a review paper doesn’t present original research but rather synthesizes already published research. There is a whole universe of papers that exist that deal with IQ research. You’re at a major research university so it should be no trouble for you to dig up papers that address the multitude of very narrow topics that may be of interest to you. That’s not my job, and I’m not particularly inclined to convince you of anything.

Since these tests were assembled basically by pure guesswork, the latter seems far more likely.

Pure guesswork? That statement insults the whole profession of psychometrics. You’re pretty fast and loose with your opinions, but I wonder how informed they really are.

Another study you cite finds that people who score at the very, very top of the SATs

Did you miss the part where the SATs in this study were administered to 13 year olds and predicted amazing differentials even 20 years later? Do you really think that SATs only measure test-taking ability? Really?

you claim without evidence that you need more than a 100 IQ to get through college. Not exactly convincing

I’m getting the distinct impression that you’ve wadded into this debate but that you’re lacking understanding of many key arguments. Come on, look the statistics up yourself. There are no functionally retarded students who are graduating college (and I mean both college and graduate in a meaningful sense, not some diploma mill.) If someone with an IQ of 70 has trouble scoring greater than 470 on the SAT, do you think that they’re going to be admitted to college?

It’s been a pleasure sparring with you and good luck with your research paper.

To DDA:

Kim Swygert, a educational psychometrician, has argued that most of the people attacking Summers have little understanding of statistics. Here is our summary of the Summers tempest and it is heavily reliant on a statistical worldview.

posted by TangoMan at March 11, 2005 05:12 PM #

Correlation, as everyone knows, is not causation. When one sees a correlation between years of schooling and IQ, there are several possibilities. More school could cause more IQ, more IQ could cause more schooling, something else (e.g. a quality upbringing) could be causing both, or the correlation could be spurious. The second strikes me as highly unlikely, but in any event there’s no hard evidence for it, especially since we don’t have any details on the study.

Nor do you seem capable of providing any. You say I can find papers on “very narrow topics” that I might be interested in, but my question was ludicrously broad: is there any evidence that IQ tests is useful, let alone a measure of intelligence, let alone innate. Yet you seem unable to point me to any evidence that fits this very broad request.

When did I say SATs only measured test-taking ability? I said that it’s not a surprise people who score high on the SATs get into nice colleges. Nor is it a surprise that 13-year-olds who score high on the SATs get into nice colleges — those who score very high on SATs at 13-year-olds seem pretty likely to score very high on SATs when they take them “for real” (and if they don’t, they can probably reuse their 13-year-old results).

Finally, you argue that one needs a 100 IQ to get through college because no low-IQs are found graduating. But you go on to refute this point yourself — low IQs get low SAT scores and thus never get accepted to college in the first place. How could you possibly know if they would graduate?

I’ve enjoyed sparring with you as well. You’ve helped convince me that Gould was right: psychometrics was, and is, a fraud. I look forward to telling folks so.

posted by Aaron Swartz at March 11, 2005 05:26 PM #

Correlation, as everyone knows, is not causation.

No kidding? Thanks. This is like a teenager who has just discovered sex and thinks his parents are completely in the dark.

Nor do you seem capable of providing any.

You seem to be having comprehension problems and can’t distinguish between capability and inclination. We’ve got over a thousand papers cited on our blog. Help yourself. Here’s a sampling:

Intelligence Predicts Health and Longevity, but Why?

O’Toole and Stankov used IQ at induction into the military, along with 56 other psychological, behavioral, health, and demographic variables, to predict noncombat deaths by age 40 among 2,309 Australian veterans. When all other variables were statistically controlled, each additional IQ point predicted a 1% decrease in risk of death. Also, IQ was the best predictor of the major cause of death, motor vehicle accidents. Vehicular death rates doubled and then tripled at successively lower IQ ranges… IQ at age 11 had a significant association with survival to about age 76. On average, individuals who were at a 1-standard-deviation (15-point) disadvantage in IQ relative to other participants were only 79% as likely to live to age 76… For each standard deviation increase in IQ, there was a 33% increased rate of quitting smoking. Adjusting for social class reduced this rate only mildly, to 25%. Thus, childhood IQ was not associated with starting smoking (mostly in the 1930s, when the public were not aware of health risks), but was associated with giving up smoking as health risks became evident… Among diabetics, intelligence at time of diagnosis correlates significantly (.36) with diabetes knowledge measured 1 year later. Like hypertension and many other chronic illnesses, diabetes requires self-monitoring and frequent judgments to keep physiological processes within safe limits. In general, low functional health literacy is linked to more illnesses, greater severity of illnesses, worse self-rated health, far higher medical costs, and (prospectively) more frequent hospitalization.

INTELLIGENCE, HUMAN CAPITAL, AND ECONOMIC GROWTH: AN EXTREME-BOUNDS ANALYSIS

Human capital plays an important role in the theory of economic growth, but it has been difficult to measure this abstract concept. We survey the psychological literature on cross-cultural IQ tests and conclude that modern intelligence tests provide one useful measure of human capital. Using a new database of national average IQ along with a methodology derived from Sala-i-Martin [1997a], we show that in growth regressions that include only robust control variables, IQ is statistically significant in 99.7% of these 1330 regressions. A 1 point increase in a nation’s average IQ is associated with a persistent 0.16% annual increase in GDP per capita… We also evaluate the explanatory power of IQ in growth regressions that include Sala-i-Martin’s education measures. Among these 56 education-related regressions, IQ was statistically significant in every one, thus passing not only Sala-i-Martin’s robustness test, but also Leamer’s [1983, 1985] extreme bounds test. While one might expect that at least some linear combination of primary, secondary, and higher education measures could eliminate the statistical significance of IQ, we did not find this to be the case… Finally, for an overall assessment of how IQ compares to other common growth variables, consider Sala-i-Martin’s original results, which used combinations of 62 growth variables in over two million regressions. Among his top 21 regressors—the ones which he considered robust—the median regressor was statistically significant in 76.4% of cases, with a range from 100% (for fraction Confucian) to 2.81% (for revolutions and coups). Fraction Confucian was the only regressor that passed an extreme bounds test. Only eight of his top 21 had coefficients over three standard errors from zero, while in our full-sample results using his top 21 growth variables, IQ’s coefficient is over five standard errors away from zero. For his overall best performing variable, equipment investment, the coefficient estimate was 5.32 standard errors away from zero. IQ would thus appear to fit comfortably in the top half of Sala-i-Martin’s top 21 growth variables.

If the above are too statistically laden for you to feel comfortable with, you might find this Scientific American article more to your taste:

By now the vast majority of intelligence researchers take these findings for granted. Yet in the press and in public debate, the facts are typically dismissed, downplayed or ignored. This misrepresentation reflects a clash between a deeply felt ideal and a stubborn reality. The ideal, implicit in many popular critiques of intelligence research, is that all people are born equally able and that social inequality results only from the exercise of unjust privilege. The reality is that Mother Nature is no egalitarian. People are in fact unequal in intellectual potential—and they are born that way, just as they are born with different potentials for height, physical attractiveness, artistic flair, athletic prowess and other traits. Although subsequent experience shapes this potential, no amount of social engineering can make individuals with widely divergent mental aptitudes into intellectual equals.

And to really pop your sociological bubble, take a look at Sacerdote’s Korean Adoption Study, What Happens When We Randomly Assign Children to Families? in which IQ is proxied by family income and mother’s educational level:

I use a new data set of Korean-American adoptees who, as infants, were randomly assigned to families in the U.S. I examine the treatment effects from being assigned to a high income family, a high education family or a family with four or more children. I calculate the transmission of income, education and health characteristics from adoptive parents to adoptees. I then compare these coefficients of transmission to the analogous coefficients for biological children in the same families, and to children raised by their biological parents in other data sets. Having a college educated mother increases an adoptee’s probability of graduating from college by 7 percentage points, but raises a biological child’s probability of graduating from college by 26 percentage points. In contrast, transmission of drinking and smoking behavior from parents to children is as strong for adoptees as for non-adoptees. For height, obesity, and income, transmission coefficients are significantly higher for non-adoptees than for adoptees. In this sample, sibling gender composition does not appear to affect adoptee outcomes nor does the mix of adoptee siblings versus biological siblings.

You see, the thing of it is, I’m not inclined to convert you on this issue. Either you’re interested in the details, or you’re not. If you are, then the internet is a wonderful tool to use for your quest. I have no dog in this fight. I’m not inclined to spend hours jumping through hoops to satisfy your standards. Find the answers yourself. There’s a lot out there.

You’ve helped convince me that Gould was right: psychometrics was, and is, a fraud. I look forward to telling folks so.

Proclaim that loudly and publicly. The moreso the better.

And it’s really terrific that you can be so sure while being so completely ignorant of the relevant literature. That in itself should give you a clue why I’m tiring of this debate.

posted by TangoMan at March 11, 2005 07:01 PM #

TangoMan, Steele’s study showed that stereotypes can cause lower math performance. What’s so hard to understand about that?

You claim to understand that “correlation … is not causation”, then proceed to throw up examples to show your thorough lack of understanding. IQ correlates with health and longevity. Heck, IQ even correlates with GDP. So what? Do you know that a country can attain a high GDP simply by having a ridiculously high cost of living?

And Scientific American is better called Pseudo-Scientific American, if Crichton is any guide. The White House seems to like Crichton, for what that’s worth.

Finally, if you really have “no dog in this fight”, then what are you doing here posting all your longish comments? Stop acting like you’re tired of this debate while you keep scribbling here. Defend your points properly, or get lost.

posted by at March 11, 2005 10:55 PM #

I think it may be interesting to consider what effect intelligence (I’m going to go ahead and suppose there is such a thing here) has on learning math. Aside from a couple major conceptual hurdles (the concept of a variable in algebra, coming to terms in some manner with the idea of the infinite/infinitesimal in calculus), math up to at least multivarible calculus can be taught in a fairly straightforward formula manner. Classes are designed and paced so that most people who take them are able to pass. So if you have enough of this math intelligence we’re assuming exists to make it over the major hurdles, what does having a surfeit of it do? Make it easier, make it require less time? and so those other intangibles come into play to balance things out: interest, determination, belief.

It seems like part of the reason statistics, when applied to intelligence and tests, are so dissatisfying to most people because they don’t even begin to explain the mechanism or causes. The person next to me finishes their test twenty minutes early and starts doodling on the test. I work hard for the entire testing time and then go back and double-check as fast as I can before the tests are collected. We get the same score. Statistics swallows this up and over a bunch of tests, maybe it predicts how we’re doing, but to me it’s intuitively obvious that something is going on here.

posted by will at March 12, 2005 02:46 PM #

“that they are threatening to revoke the non-profit status of the NAACP due to some rather mild comments made by its chairman Bond in a speech.”

I’m just sifting through this fascinating debate. I must comment on the above quote:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200406%5CPOL20040603a.html

The comments by Mr. Bond were far from mild…to be fair.

posted by J.Gordon at March 15, 2005 10:07 PM #

Because he had no real arguments that I can see, only claims and evasions.

There’s nothing wrong with starting debates, but that’s not what he did. The point of my article is to point out that people have been researching these questions for years, with the explcit goal of proving claims like the ones Summers made wrong. To respond by ignoring that evidence and repeating the claims isn’t starting a debate, it’s being a sexist jerk.

I don’t see how you can fairly characterize Summer’s points as “having no real arguments.” The only difference between an argument and a claim is your negative chacterization of it. Essentially, you disagree, and rather than simply saying so and laying out your evidence, you mount an ad hominem attack on him

Also, it’s absurd to suggest that he did not start a debate. All you need to do is google “Summers” and “women” and you will find literally thousands of discussions about the points he made and whether they are valid or not. Like it or not, that is a debate.

The unfortunate part of the episode is that his critics can’t seem to limit their argument to refuting his points, but instead try to argue by (pick one) (i) trying to censure him, (ii) impugning his motives, or (iii) having fainting spells. That makes reasonable people wonder whether his points hit too close to home. It also makes us wonder what ever happened to the university as a place for free inquiry and debate.

Thank God for the blogosphere, immune as it is to votes of no confidence.

posted by Jonathan Shapiro at March 18, 2005 07:47 PM #

The only difference between an argument and a claim is your negative chacterization of it.

Um, no. Here’s a claim: “The sky is purple.” Here’s an argument: “The sky must be purple because the water reflects the color of the sky and this webcam of the water shows the water is purple.” See the difference?

Shapiro claims that critics don’t refute Summers’s points, yet I cited several studies which did just that. Shapiro didn’t even mention them, let alone refute them.

posted by Aaron Swartz at March 18, 2005 09:06 PM #

Hi Shapiro, when are you going to bring up the “oh I’m sick and tired of this debate” line like some others just did?

And let’s not also forget Scarlet’s (I hope) immortal quote: “Debate is one of the biggest time wasters out there if it is not done for a good reason.” Well, personally I think there is a debate, but the debate’s there for the wrong reason. So there.

posted by bi at March 18, 2005 10:44 PM #

I think Summers was revealed for what he is. His remarks, which he may have made in passing and simply to raise questions, leaves very little doubt that he believes (his “conviction and theory”) that males and females have their respective places in society.

Well, until someone changes the rules, it’s only women who carry children to term. That’s a pretty immutable, biologically determined societal role. Women may opt out of that role, but for now and the forseeable future, men can’t opt into that role. In all societies that is an important role, and filling it has effects on all aspects of those societies and on the women who opt into the role.

Of course, not much is known of any societies where all women opted out of the role…

posted by Andrew Diseker at March 20, 2005 11:07 PM #

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